What Makes A Memorable Customer Experience - Interview With Dan Gingiss - Part 2
How can you use gifts to create a memorable customer experience?
Read the second of my 2-part interview with Dan Gingiss, author of ‘The Experience Maker’ and ‘Winning at Social Customer Care’, as well as a sought-after keynote speaker and customer experience consultant and coach to businesses of all sizes.
In this final part, Dan shares how client loyalty gifts should really be used to create a long-lasting, memorable business relationship, as well as some inspiring stories on how to emotionally connect with your audience.
Enjoy!
[Dan]: So gift giving is a really interesting part of the client provider relationship.
And there's books written on it. One I would recommend is by a guy named John Rula, called ‘Giftology.’
The biggest takeaway for me in that book was anything that has your logo on it is not a gift, it's marketing.
I think he's right. So often when we think of gifts, especially in the B2B world, it’s just tchotchke heaven there, right?
Like ‘We'd love to send you this water bottle with our logo on it, and this sweatshirt with our logo on it, this pen with our logo on it..’
Except who actually wants someone else's logo on that thing, other than maybe an employee of that company?
When we start there, we're not really thinking about the customer, we're thinking about us.
We're hoping that by giving that ‘gift’, we will also create a marketing opportunity.
I prefer to try to personalize the gifts a little bit more and it doesn't necessarily have to be that every client gets something different.
In fact, the way that I play it is that I give them something that reminds them of me, without ever having my logo on it.
So don't steal this! But I'll tell you what I've been doing for my clients for the last couple years.
I wanted to send something that was quintessentially Chicago, because that's where I'm from, but also something that gets used over and over again.
There is a company out of Chicago called The Spice House and they create these unbelievable seasoning mixes that they grind by hand and they mix all sorts of different flavors together. So you can go in there and get oregano and other types of things.
But the best thing about them are all the blends that they do. They create this beautiful box that has four different bottles or jars in there.
In the first year I did this, I sent out a box with my four favorite ones that I know I like, and my family loves. What I noticed was, for months, I would get people writing to me and saying, ‘Oh, I just cooked a steak last night and used your seasoning’ or ‘I just made pasta last night and used your seasoning.’
But my logos are nowhere at all! The only logo on there is The Spice House logo.
[Pia]: Right, but they remembered where they got it, and remembered where they were.
[Dan]: Right. Plus they're remembering me at a sort of ‘intimate’ time in the kitchen, making food with their family - it's a happy time.
And so it's a good time for them to remember me.
The next year, I thought ‘How do I top that? I don't know what to do!’
So I decided to send another box of spices, but this time, I sent four new ones. I mean, they only sell about 700 different spice blends, so I could go on for a while, right?!
And so because I'm nerdy, I started a spreadsheet, and clients that have been around for three years have gotten Box A, Box B and Box C etc. If you're in my first year I'm going to give you Box A, because those are still my favorites, right?
So it's something people can now look forward to, but also there's a little bit of a surprise - ‘What am I going to get this year? It’s going to be something good because Dan always picks up great spices.’
I also say talk to your customers, get their feedback. Is this something they like, or not? I've gotten really, really good feedback on the spices, which is why I keep doing it versus switching to something else.
There's been other times where whether it's a gift, or really any kind of experience, you sometimes don’t get good feedback.
You read my book, so you know that I'm a storyteller. I tell lots of different stories, real life examples.
But when I'm on stage, I can only tell a limited number, depending on how long the keynote is.
For a long time, I used to survey the audience, and I would ask them which examples they remembered, and which examples were forgettable.
It was fascinating to me, because I look at them all as my babies. I like them all. I think they're all great examples.
But it's absolutely true that some of them resonate better than others.
And so there are some examples that are in every single keynote I do - regardless of what industry I'm talking to - because I know the audience is going to laugh, they’re going to enjoy it or they'll be touched.
Then there are some that I'll rotate based on the audience.
And then there's some that I kicked out of the keynote completely, because I heard enough people tell me they didn't really love that example.
I’m not offended, in fact, you just made my keynote better, because I took out an example that it just wasn't resonating with people.
And so if I ever got negative feedback, or somebody said ‘You know, this is great, but this doesn’t apply, I don't cook…’ or whatever, I would switch it up.
You have to be willing to listen to feedback, positive and negative, and I always say feedback is a gift.
You just have to look at it that way and you take the negative with the positive.
I love it when somebody tells me I'm their favorite speaker of the whole event.
I also love it when they say ‘You know, it really bothered me when you were saying XYZ.’
Thank you for telling me that. That's going to make me better.
[Pia]: Yeah, I don't enjoy negative feedback, but it's the most valuable feedback.
[Dan]: If you're willing to take it and do something with it, guess what?
People are going to tell you something that may hurt your feelings or might not be what you want to hear.
But if you take it to heart, you're gonna get better.
[Pia]: Some of the worst feedback I've gotten has also been hugely influential on whatever I've done, because I think ‘I hate that they thought that. I probably should change that.’
It doesn't feel good, but that doesn't mean it's not valuable.
I just want to highlight your spice example, which I really like. I like that it's totally unrelated, but still very unique to you.
It doesn't sound like you're being specific to your clients, you weren't, say, weeding out the people who cook, right?
[Dan]: No, I didn't do that.
But I knew two of my clients were vegetarians. And so even though all of the spices are vegetarian, there's some of them that have names like ‘Butcher’s Rub’, so I’m not sending something called Butchers Rub to a vegetarian!
Even though it’s just salt, pepper and garlic, they're not going to like that - it’s going to be weird for them. So I did actually sub out spices for them. That's the only change that I made.
But the reason I picked these is that I asked myself ‘What was the connection to my brand?’ It’s that it is experiential.
Cooking is experiential and trying new things is experiential. So if they're remembering me during a happy experience, then I'm doing my job.
[Pia]: I think that's a great example.
And also because it's something that you use, which I'm sure you told them - ‘These are my favorite spices. I'm sharing something of mine with you or something that I liked and I think you will like it too.’
Taking that even a step farther, as you said you’re often looking for things that are inexpensive to do, I think another opportunity is the copy.
It's sometimes the hardest part, but it's what you write with that gift or on that box.
Now everybody does it, so it's a little less interesting. But earlier, the marketing experience opportunities were when you would open a box, and there were funny things inside or funny things on the outside of the box, right?
Do you remember? It was probably five years ago, when that was a really new thing.
Now, every scaling startup has their funny lines on the boxes.
I know, because at the end of our hallway where everyone puts their boxes, I'm constantly seeing like all the cool new companies with all their funny lines, which are still funny, but it's just a little less funny, because everybody does it.
All of that is to say, I like that idea, because you brought the tactical thing into it, and you brought the experience into it - it's very on brand for you.
We call that being your brand.
You aren't just sending something for the sake of sending it. It’s really in line with you, and specific to you.
As opposed to my story of the box, where I can just tell that you send this to every client - it’s not really about you or me or our work or anything.
It's just ‘Here's a gift, so that you maybe have better goodwill towards me.’ And that I feel is a little bit of a turn off.
[Dan]: Yeah.
I mean, if I were to take it a step further, I would say you find a gift that is really about the recipient - it's not about you.
And if you take the time to learn about each recipient - this person likes shoes, this person likes handbags, this person likes spices and so on, you really can tailor it, and that's wonderful.
That's a little bit hard. And I don't know that my way is the best way.
But for me anyway, creating something that was both personal and experiential was the ticket. And so far, it seems to be good.
But even in other things that we do, and in various parts of the journey, there’s opportunity. For instance, you don't have to wait for the holidays to create a personalized experience for somebody.
In fact, one of the things that I often recommend is to be sure to create an experience the moment they sign the contract.
Let's look at the two parties.
As the agency owner, what do you do? Well, you go home to your significant other and you pop a bottle of champagne and toast or whatever, because you're excited that you have a new client and everything's happy and hunky dory.
The client is more likely going home to their significant other and saying, ‘I just signed a new deal today, I really hope I made a good decision. I think I did, because I really liked Pia, but I don't know.’
And if they're if they work for a bigger company, it’s more like ‘My boss is gonna fire me if I pick the wrong provider and this.’
So they're not exactly going home to their significant other in the same mood that you are.
What can we do at that very moment to help them get into that place? One of the things that I love to do - and it's proverbial, not real - is to proverbially put my arm around the person and say, ‘You just made the best decision of your career, because all those things I said before - I'm going to be there for you, I'm going to deal with any questions that you ever have. You are my top priority right now, and I won’t rest until you're successful.’
Now they can go home to their significant other and say ‘I made a great decision today in hiring Pia and I can't wait to get started.’
And that's very different from the first one that I explained.
So there's this opportunity at the very beginning of the relationship to celebrate together. You can think of it like you survived the first date, and there's going to be a second date, and that's exciting.
We should both be happy about that, not just one of us be happy.
[Pia]: Can you share more about that?
What do you mean by that? Do you send them a bit of a video on the thank you page? Do you send them an email?
[Dan]: It depends on what it is that we're doing together and, and who the client is that sort of thing.
And also, the process matters, too, right?
Sometimes it was more of a competitive process, and sometimes it was more of a slam dunk.
One of the things I love doing, which is really simple and inexpensive, and that I talked about in the book, is by a company called Punk Post.
You go onto their website or their mobile app, and you fill out a greeting card, you basically tell them what it is that you want to say to somebody, and you pick out a design.
And then they hire an artist to hand draw the card.
And these things are works of art. I mean, they are beautiful from the outside envelope and there’s a 100% open rate (that’s for all the marketers out there!)
Because when you see this envelope in your mailbox, you are opening it.
And what the CEO told me for the book is that people save these cards, they put them up on their bulletin board or on the refrigerator, or they take pictures of them and share them on social media and say, ‘Oh my gosh, look what I got from Pia today! Look at this beautiful card.’
And the beauty is that the cost of a Punk Post is basically the same cost as a Hallmark card and a stamp - between $5 to $7.
So it's not a big investment, but your brand new client gets that a few days after signing the contract, and it's a moment.
So I love things like that.
I think we've been talking a lot about gifts and snail mail is such a great channel for that kind of stuff, because nobody expects something in snail mail, right?
I always tell people that you can send someone a thank you email but they're not going to be framing that and putting that on their refrigerator or on their bulletin board, because it's an email.
And I like what you're saying about the boxes, too. I think that you're right that a lot of companies do it now.
I would argue that as long as you're still showing your brand's personality that is different from your competitor's brand's personality, I think it can still be really useful.
Because the idea is that uniqueness is so memorable.
[Pia]: I agree. I think they were missing the part that was connected to their brand or a reason that I was getting these particular things either because of who I am or because of who they are.
I'm not going to disagree with you necessarily, but I will say that I've sent some gifts where it is about us, but I know that they like it.
Because they've told us it's ‘Super Worstofall Design badass branding!’ And that's an exciting thing because it's usually something handmade.
[Dan]: But also you’re selling branding, right?
So your brand itself is what you're selling. So that makes a lot of sense.
I once got this beautiful cutting board from a company. I was afraid to cut it because it was so beautiful.
Only problem with it is in the bottom left hand corner. They had firebranded in their logo.
And then I got to deal with it right?
I don't want your logo on my cutting board!
If I'm going to cook a meal or whatever I want to use that cutting board for, I’ll remember who it's from without your logo.
I don't need your logo to remember that you gave it to me.
It's just like when you get a wedding gift. You always remember who gave you that bowl or those sad dishes or whatever.
Now, if he had fire branded my logo - that's cool.
And that's what I’d love for a branding agency to do is, if you're helping somebody create their brand, put their logo on it, and then they're gonna really listen to you, because it's about them.
And of course, they're going to remember that you made it.
My logo is a light bulb that has the letter CX inside where the electric wiring would be.
I'll never forget who made that for me - that is a person who will always be in my mind, and I will have my gratitude.
So, whenever that logo shows up, I know who created that for me, so I don't need to be reminded of that.
[Pia]: I have a great story about that. The first time I met Mike Michalowicz (author of Profit First), he actually invited me to meet him at MSNBC because he happened to be going there.
He's a busy guy. So he was like, ‘Oh, let's just have the meeting at MSNBC. And then you can meet them.’
And I ended up getting on the MSNBC show because of it!
So what an amazing, cool, thing that he did for me, right?
He didn't know me, and I was just publishing my book.
So I thought ‘What am I gonna get this guy? I have to thank him.’
So we took a $1 bill, and as my husband's an artist, he put sunglasses on George Washington, wrote ‘Profit First’ above it, and we framed it and sent it to him.
Years later, I have him on my podcast, and he says ‘Hey, didn't you give this to me?’ and pulls it off of his tree!
It's on the tree. That is his background for everything he does.
How powerful is that?
I have this thing sitting in his office on his very important tree.
Because it had his logo, his brand.
And that was accidental because I just wanted to give him something that meant something.
[Dan]: That reminds me of something (and this is probably completely off topic).
I was recently looking for a new show to watch.
And instead of finding a new show, I went back to an old show, and I started rewatching ‘The West Wing.’
It's incredible. I loved it the first time, but I'm loving it now.
And I just passed the episode where Leo convinces Bartlett to run for president, and he had written on a cocktail napkin, ‘Bartlett for America.’
He says ‘This has been going through my head’ and whatever and he shows him the napkin.
And years later, when Bartlett is the president, he has that napkin framed and he gives it back as a gift to Leo.
And it's this shared moment between them.
And it's not that the napkins are worth anything. It's just that there’s a sentimentality and emotion behind it.
We talk about this a lot in the customer experience world. A lot of customer experience is being able to hit somebody emotionally in the right spot, or to hit them in one of their five senses in the right spot.
You know - something that looks good, smells good, tastes good, sounds good, feels good.
Those are all things that we remember.
Or if it gives us the chills, or, makes us shed a tear or hits us in the heart. We remember that too.
And if you can focus experiences around any of those things, generally, you're going to have a winner.
[Pia]: That's so good. Listening to and reading all of your stories in your book, it was like ‘Idea, idea, idea.’
One idea I had after you told the story about Chewy I thought ‘Yes, I should be sending gifts to people as they leave my program.’
I knew exactly what kinds of gifts and it was just brilliant, full of so many good stories that will just get your mind popping with ideas.
And some of them are so simple. You know, some of the ideas I came up with were so simple to execute, and I thought to myself - why am I not doing that already?
So, so good.
You said you have these stories that you share at all your keynotes and you just know everybody loves them. Will you just tell us one of those stories?
[Dan]: Oh, you put me on the spot!
I’ll tell you a story that isn't in the book, and I will preface this by saying it's better in my keynote because actually, it's one of the few stories in the keynote where I don’t tell the story, I play an audio file of the actual person who had this experience, so I’ll try to recreate it.
This gentleman goes to Children's National Hospital because his child is having surgery.
It's this long exhausting day filled with forms, waiting, being nervous and his kid is crying.
And it's just one of those days that, as a parent you know, is just a nightmare day.
The end of the day finally comes, he's walking out and he stops in the men's room.
He’s washing his hands, he looks up in the mirror, and there's a sign that says ‘Hang in there, dad.’
And he just melts.
He talks about how this was the first moment in the day where he could be vulnerable, because he's called upon to be the strength of his family.
So he's got to show bravery and strength, even though this is so difficult.
And he has this one moment of vulnerability.
And somebody thought to put a sign up on a mirror that was exactly the words that he needed to hear at exactly that moment.
He said, ‘It felt like somebody put a hand on my shoulder and told me everything was going to be okay, at exactly the moment I needed to hear that.’
Every time I hear him tell this story, I get the chills. I have the chills right now.
I could almost say it word for word but when you hear his voice, you hear his emotion, and you hear his voice catch a little bit - you're there with him.
You're in the hospital and - I know, this is weird, ladies - but you're in the men's room with him.
You’re right there, and you feel what he's feeling.
The best part about it is the authenticity right there.
That's why I play his voice instead of my voice. Because when you hear it from this guy, you’re like ‘Oh, my gosh.’
This was just a sign on a mirror.
This didn't cost anybody anything.
This wasn't operationally complex.
This wasn't expensive.
This was just somebody taking a moment out to really empathize.
And it’s amazing how much of an effect that can have on people.
And the guy told me later that unfortunately, his kid has had to go back to the hospital several times.
And he says ‘Every time I walk into that bathroom, I get that feeling. Again, when I see the sign - it's not just a one time thing, it hits me every time because they just seem to know.’
I love that because we can all do that.
We can all be a little bit more empathetic, and we can all try to understand our customers a little bit better.
Understand that they're not us. They're themselves.
They're going through different things. And people experience the same thing in different ways.
We all experienced COVID in different ways. And just having that little bit of humanity, especially in the world that we live in today, goes a lot farther than you think.
[Pia]: I'm totally inspired, Dan. I want to come up with all the things for my people.
So you're an author and speaker, but do you work with people?
Do you help people with this? Who do you help?
[Dan]: I am a speaker at heart, but I do customer experience consulting and coaching with companies as well.
I have an online course and the book.
This is what gets me excited.
For you, it’s finding somebody's perfect brand, that is going to be their identity.
For me, it's creating experiences that people want to talk about, and that just jazz's me up.
And I love helping organizations do that.
So please reach out to me.
One of the things that I teach in the book, as you know, is being responsive, so of course, I try to practice what I preach.
In fact, true story - I got a keynote once, because somebody inquired at 10:30 on a Saturday night, and I had an answer to them by 11.
And they were so impressed that I had answered that quickly, they knew that I was the guy they wanted to hire.
So that's the other thing. You’ve got to practice what you preach.
[Pia]: I love it. Well, everyone's going to go buy your book.
Now, actually, when I got it from you, we did a little book swap.
When I got your book, I shared it on social media and already a bunch of people on my Program bought it, so we were all chatting about it.
So I know some people who are reading this have already been reading it and loving it.
And for those who haven't, I'm sure they will love it now because you’ve got some great stories.
Dan, you're a great storyteller. And the book is full of great stories and people will definitely be as inspired as I was during this.
Thank you so much for this little chat we had.
[Dan]: Well, thank you. I am honored and it was a lot of fun to talk.
P.S. You can always jump on a call with my team if you want to learn how to wow your branding agency clients, as well as all my other tools and strategies to scale up your agency - just go here to get started!